Should one write “Jesus’ name” or “Jesus’s name”?
Which is correct, “Travis’ friend” or “Travis’s friend”?
The questions on the use of the apostrophe to form the possessive keep coming. This post is about how to form the possessive of a proper name that ends in -s.
Most stylebooks agree that the rule for forming the possessive of a singular noun ending in -s is formed by adding ’s:
the boss’s birthday
the bus’s wheels
the witness’s testimony
When it comes to forming the possessive of a proper name that ends in s, guides disagree.
Some stylebooks recommend a single apostrophe for Biblical or classical names like Jesus and Achilles, but ’s for names like James and Charles; others say, “Treat all names ending in s the same.”
The Chicago Manual of Style once recommended a single apostrophe to form the possessive of Biblical or classical names:
Some guides still recommend this usage, but CMOS has changed its policy in a spirit of consistency; now it recommends that all proper names ending in -s form their possessive by adding ’s:
the Ganges’s source
Equally consistent, the Associated Press Style Book opts for a single apostrophe for all proper names ending in -s:
the Ganges’ source
The New York Times style manual generally agrees with CMOS, but adds this wrinkle:
Omit the s after the apostrophe when a word ends in two sibilant sounds…separated only by a vowel sound: Kansas’ Governor; Texas’ population; Moses’ behalf… But when a name ends with a sibilant letter that is silent, keep the possessive s: Arkansas’s…
Disagreement on the issue of apostrophe s vs. plain apostrophe goes all the way to the Supreme Court. Justice Clarence Thomas believes that the possessive form of a name like his should be formed by adding only an apostrophe: “Justice Thomas’ opinion.” Referring to the case Kansas v. Marsh (2006), Thomas wrote “Kansas’ statute,” but his colleague Justice Souter wrote “Kansas’s statute.”
If you write for publication, how you treat the possessive of proper names that end in -s will be determined by your employer’s house style.
If you are free to choose which style to follow, keep in mind that the writer’s goal is to convey thoughts as clearly as possible to readers. Style guides exist to assist writers in this goal, but it seems to me that there are problems with the recommendations of all three guides mentioned above.
I prefer the guidelines given in the Penguin Guide to Punctuation:
A name ending in s takes only an apostrophe if the possessive form is not pronounced with an extra s. Hence: Socrates’ philosophy, Ulysses’ companions, Saint Saens’ music, Aristophanes’ plays.
The reasoning behind this rule is that as we don’t say [sok-ru-teez-iz], there’s no reason to write “Socrates’s.”
Punctuation is supposed to aid readers, not puzzle them. It’s no help to readers unfamiliar with English pronunciation to mislead them into trying to say [dick-inz-iz], or [u-rip-uh-deez-iz] by writing “Dickens’s novels” or “Euripides’s plays.”
The bottom line is that stylebooks do not agree on whether to write “Jesus’ name” or “Jesus’s name,” “Travis’ friend” or “Travis’s friend.” Writers not bound by a specific style manual must make their own decision and be consistent with it. Personally, I’d write “Jesus’ name” and “Travis’s friend” because I would say “[jee-zus] name” and “[trav-is-iz] friend.”
Related Post: Charles’s Pen and Jesus’ Name
49 thoughts on “Possessive of Proper Names Ending in S”
Thanks for this clarification, Maeve. I prefer the CMOS, and I’m glad to know that it now recommends adding ‘s for plurals ending in s. I make an exception only for Jesus. One consistently hears “in Jesus’ name we pray…” (not “Je-zus-ses”)
I once received, as a teacher gift, a little decorated chalkboard that read “Mrs. Romness’ classroom.” I had to find a white paint pen to change it to “Mrs. Romness’s classroom.” It doesn’t bother me a bit to see letter s three times in a row. The apostrophe s makes the word’s spelling in line with the way people say it.
I’m with CMOS on this one. It is consistent and follows common pronunciation. I don’t pay attention to the AP guide because I don’t write for a newspaper. Still, as you say, choose a style and stick with it.
Apostrophe rules may be some of the most complex we have. CMOS tried for consistency and more simplicity, but got clumsiness as an unintended consequence; for example, ‘waitresses’s.’ Say that out loud in front of a cop and he’ll run you in for being drunk.
My fallback style guide is Garbl’s, because it’s free and online. They drop the ‘s for words ending in s. I think it’s a lot easier to read, but I also like the suggestion to spell it the way you pronounce it.
I’m having deja vu here…didn’t we just discuss this LOL
I am not crazy about the -s’s construction (as I mentioned in the prior post); it looks a bit cluttered to me, and also I agree with Curtis (and, by extension, Nancy’s reference to the pronunciation and spelling of Jesus’) to spell things as pronounced. Of course spelling things as they are pronounced will generally get you in hot water, so I guess that in personal informal writing, do what you want, but in formal writing or for job purposes, use the style guide you’re given or pick one and stick with it, so that later nobody can come after you and ask what on earth possessed you to do what you did! “But it says so right here in my CMOS…”
I am all in favor of consistency– always add an ‘S. That construction is self-contained so why should it make any difference what it is being attached to? OTOH, I do remember learning that certain biblical and other “classical” constructions like Jesus’ and Moses’ were exceptions that were never written with an additional S. Why was never made clear, it was just presented as idiomatic.
But the appeals to pronunciation don’t ring true. As far as I know, whether or not you write, “the Stevens’s” or “the Stevens’ “ you are still supposed to say the Stevens-es. So yes, it should be in “Jesuses” name we pray, regardless of how we spell it.
@Curtis: We are still talking generally about singular nouns. You would never write or say “waitresses’s”; as a plural it would always be waitresses’
A related anecdotal note. American history books have traditionally referred to the uprising led by Daniel Shays in 1780s Massachusetts as Shays’ Rebellion. Just recently I have noticed newer books changing the reference to Shays’s Rebellion. Looked odd at first, but really makes sense when all of the above in the article is considered. Finally, change for the Good!
If anyone were paying attention to these things, it might have some good points. In reality, no one cares about grammar.
Only today, I read an article by a young woman “about to graduate” and looking for a job. It was riddled with misspelled words, grammar errors, including the ones mentioned here, as well as ‘their’ for “they’re” and “to” for “too.”
Even worse, I regularly see similar errors in sites such as BBC.com and other media sites. Apparently, even proof readers are a thing of the past, much less actual editors.
I love the Penguin’s preference. Grammar with a dose of common sense!
venqax, I believe you were right the first time. The Chicago Manual specifies two names ending in s that take a final apostrophe only: Moses’ and Jesus’. But I believe there is a pattern here that can be extended to other nouns/names. For example, Francis, ISIS, Shays, etc. My devised rule is to add apostrophe to the final s in nouns/names to avoid the cacophony or awkwardness of three consecutive sibilants.
which is correct : this is regarding the Moses family Surname: do i say “The Moses’s are a wonderful family”? or “The Moses’ are/is a wonderful family ” ? or is this just wrong altogether… please help with this….have a super debate going on about this.
How about on names like Janice or Nice. It’s Janice’s or can it also be Janice’ or Nice’?
To clarify, you’d write Jesus’s disciples, right?
I realize this is months after the fact, but…
@Janine – neither of those are correct, you’re just trying to pluralize Moses in your examples. You don’t insert an apostrophe when making a noun into the plural form. So it would be “The Moseses are a great family.” I usually avoid the situation altogether and say something like, “The Moses family is great.”
I prefer the pronunciation-based rule. I came here to try to find out whether I should write “Sanders’s” or “Sanders'”. I’m tending towards “Sanders'” as I wouldn’t pronounce it Sandersez.
The New York Times’s rule is particularly asinine: to add the extra ‘s’ when it’s not pronounced but omit it when it is pronounced. Penguin’s rule is the most logical: add the extra ‘s’ when it’s pronounced (Jesus’s teachings, Kansas’s rivers) and omit it when it’s not pronounced (Bernie Sanders’ campaign, Arkansas’ rivers). As the author says, rules are supposed to help the reader (or writer), and the Penguin rule is the only one that does, as well as being logically consistent.
Thanks for all the helps and not not help’ because help does not end in s. If it did; helps’ But it doesn’t. If it was a proper name; Helps, then it is Helps’. I hope I said that right. I am trying to find my style without another telling me what it should be; thus; I am a freelance writer. When it comes to Jesus, and not avoiding the possessive nature style; Jesus’ I find myself avoiding when in doubt or don’t remember rule set for myself. That comes in time so with that, all that I read here was very helpful, and informative. I hope I can give me an A just for this. Without editing: 1; A. I gave myself an A then. If you do not take care of yourself nobody else will. God helps those who helps themselves. Again, thank you.
Over two and one-half months since the last post.
I strongly agree with Eric M. Bram. The Penguin rule is logically consistent and should help any reader or writer when confronted with this grammatical conundrum.
Today, April 28, 2016, the New York Times had an opinion page title:
“Bernie Sanders’s Legacy” I can’t really see how this is clear, logical, or grammatically correct. However I cede the argument to those who would cite CMOS and other sources that it can be used. I simply don’t find that use helpful. I’ll stick with the Penguin rule.
Great article. I just had to stop by and mention the mess people get in with my name, Ross. No matter which rule I have followed over the years, people will always tell me I should be using the other. I think I may point them to this page in future! 🙂
What about a name like smukerss Jones. He is famous. Would it be smukerss’s? That seems like lots of sss to me. I’m 10
I agree with Marko!
@Charmaine – exactly … and what about Joyce and Reese?
I realize that there’s some debate and/or confusion on the subject, because there are two conflicting schools of thought.
One school that’s concerned with capturing the actual pronunciation in writing–which ends up looking pretty clunky for names like Ross’s. While the other school is to simplify writing by applying the rules more consistently–which gives names like Ross’ a more streamline appearance.
I can understand the logic behind each approach–but my personal preference is definitely the latter of those two, because it’s much more aesthetically pleasing and easier to spot mistakes. I like being able to look at something and quickly see that it’s wrong, I shouldn’t have to spend any time thinking about the way something is pronunced or recalling weird biblical exceptions. If you’re in favor of using pronunciation as your guide, while I understand your logic, it’s clearly the inferior school of thought.
Writing is visual, I don’t care how something is pronounced, because my ears don’t have to look at it–but my eyes do! Remember this IS English we’re discussing here–so there’s a million different words that we’ve taken from other languages, that the spelling of some words compared to their pronunciation can be nightmarishly illogical! You cannot build the foundation of a rule on such a shaky foundation and expect it to work–the fact that respite doesn’t rhyme with despite should be enough proof of my point.
Then if you throw in people that can’t speak properly, how could you ever expect them to then follow grammatical rules in writing?!
Which brings me to this little exchange I saw between @Charmaine and @Paul M. Seriously?! NONE of those words you idiots mentioned ends with an “S!” The reason you two are confused comes down to your either a terrible grasp on the alphabet or the worst reading comprehension I’ve ever seen!
Also, @Charmaine who the hell is named “Nice?” Do you know someone named Janice that goes by Nice as their nickname or something–or is it pronounced like the city in France?
Finally, @Paul M–I think you know damn well that it’s Reese’s, because he’s quite famous for his peanut butter cups and his “Pieces.”
Profanity and personal attacks are not typical responses to the posts on this site. If you were feeling some unrelated personal pain when you wrote the comment, I hope things go better for you soon. If you are simply modeling the prevailing fashion of incivility to strangers, perhaps you could confine your comments to a site more accepting of that style.
I have a coworker with the name J’Sharie Washington. How would I show possessive by only using her first name?
J’Sharie’s phone needs to be fixed.
Would this be correct?
Very interesting discussion. I actually prefer to write “Jesus’,” even though I pronounce the word with 3 syllables.
With both my first and last name ending in “s”, I have paid close attention to the “right” way to express the possessive for a name ending in “s”. Since both ways can be considered correct, I prefer the form that adds the ‘s because I have heard the extra syllable pronounced many more times than it is not. However, sometimes I just take the easy way out and say that it is “mine”.
Singular possessive, add the apostrophe s, always. Extra rules and exceptions just make it more confusing. To use some examples, the lass’s book, the bus’s timetable, James’s homework, Kansas’s statute, and so on.
Plural possessive: Pluralize, then add an apostrophe. If the plural form doesn’t end in s, use apostrophe s. The mice’s fear was evident. The cars’ horns were blaring. The Smiths’ house is the biggest on the block.
Singular pronoun possessive vs conjunctions: This one is odd, as it fights with conjunctions sometimes. It’s tricky. (It is tricky.) Its color is orange. Hers was blue. She’s running. She is running. So, the conjunctions have the apostrophe, but the singular possessive pronoun doesn’t.
If something is vocally awkward, practice. After all, if someone is mispronouncing your name, you correct them. If a word is being mispronounced, you correct them. It is not a cruelty, it is a kindness of correction. It only becomes a cruelty if one adds mockery into it. We are all striving to become better.
Thank you for this! Personally I agree with your take at the end. As a blogger I have to decide for myself and truthfully I kind of wish I was bound by a style guide instead!
I took the time to Google the rules, finally, after too many times struggling with how to write my son’s name as a possessive. He is Sebastian and goes by Bass. I say it “Bass-iz” so I guess “Bass’s” wins out. (If not obvious, that’s pronounced Bass like the fish. Which apparently has already been pointed out on the playground. Sigh.)
I actually have a question. My married name is Vickless. Is the proper plural for this “sss” or “s’”?
@Laura: You asked about a plural, not a possessive, so ‘s would never be right, or even relevant. Words that end in S are almost always pluralized by adding -ES. So, more than one Vickless would be Vicklesses. Just imagine a vickless is a little curio you’d find in a cabinet.
Since we are locked in the middle, better use this key principle: “minimize letters used,” hence, “in Jesus’ name,” not Jesus’s . . . Just that.
Which is proper?
1. The cat’s litter box, or
2. The cats’ litter box
What irks me is when people misuse apostrophes on, for example signs to identify their house or trays and other interior home decor (The Smith’s). There are two problems here: First of all, the preceding “The” refers to a family or group of Smiths, so IF they were proclaiming this as their house, it would correctly say “The Smiths’ house (as house is not implicit). but Smith’s is a singular possessive,as in John’s Car.
And second, do they really mean a possessive at all – are they just identifying the last name – in which case The Smiths would be fine.
Sign painters and those who personalize interior decor should keep a little chart with correct and incorrect examples.
I love the author’s idea at the end!
However, if I say something like “in Jesus’ name”, I don’t pronounce the extra S. But if I am talking about the original pronunciation of Jesus’s original name, then I would say “Jesus’s name”, with the extra S!
Back to square one!
To Larry E:
They are both proper! “Cat’s” is singular possessive; “cats'” is plural possessive
So it’s the cat’s box if it belongs to one cat. The cats’ box if it belongs to two or more cats . Pretty simple singular plural question when the fog gets blown away. No reason things like this should be confusing people just because of bad language education. Schools’ failures – all of them– in many missions cause a lot of wasted effort.
The pronunciation argument seems misguided. Writing and speaking/pronunciation are not always solidly conjoined. E.g., for example, should be said/read aloud as ‘for example” not as “E G’ just because it’s written that way. Likewise don’t say “I E” ,say “that is”. Same with abbreviations. We see Dr Smith and read it aloud as Doctor Smith, not D R Smith as if they were his initials. So, if the name is Richards, regardless of it being spelled the Richards’ or the Richards’s, it should be pronounced the Richards’s, with the extra S sound.
Opinions requested, please. My son and I are differing over the possessive of his baby son’s name, Louis with a silent “s”. I think that Louis’s is correct and he is going with Louis’. What do you think?
This pisses me off! I came for a definitive answer. There is no excuse for grammatical inconsistency in a civilized society.
The bottom line for this entire issue must be to choose a style guide and follow it. As long as your son isn’t writing for a publication that prefers “Louis’s hat,” he can write “Louis’ hat” if he pleases.
Punctuation is not grammar. Punctuation is largely arbitrary. And even grammar is not always consistent. The best one can do is to arm oneself with a reliable style guide, read the writing of good writers, and lighten up a little.
In a recent conversation with a fellow teacher, we disagreed on the following use of the apostrophe with ‘s’…Here you go; what are your thoughts? This was seen on a billboard. Should it be:
Hocking Hill’s Hometown.
Hocking Hills’ Hometown
Candy Jones, I agree with your sentiment here. It should be one style & one style ONLY, taught. As I recall in Grammar school in the 70’s, anything ending in an s had an apostrophe added to make it possessive. This is what I was taught in Ca & NM. I stand by it & teach my children the same.
The only reason the rule would change is because of teaching inadequacies combined with bad proof reading in editing.
My oldest & youngest children both have been in speech therapy. My oldest child, who is 13 yrs her sister’s sr., has no problem with this(Special ed & dual Diagnosis in NM). Due to subpar teaching (in Houston…Aldine School District) where special ed, & quite frankly, general ed, is concerned, my youngest child is riddled with difficulties in reading and enunciation. It has taken years of personal home correction by 5 older siblings and parents to curtail this problem.
When my youngest was coming home saying libary, pacific for specific, and other atrocious patterns of speech in 2nd and 3rd, I was livid. That and other issues were brought to the administration’s attention. They did not care and i finally made the choice to move to another school district. The famage, however, in the previous school distrist was done.
I thought for sure there would be definition on this and that my opinion would be right!! I prefer the ‘s always for singular possessive. It always erked me in Catholic School seeing “Jesus’ name” and I recall being told something like, Jesus is not singular, Jesus is part of a trinity, so it will be plural possessive, but that answer always annoyed me especially because I pronounced the name, “Jesuses.” I vote for consistency in the grammatical rule. English already is complicated and not phonetic and has extra letters so why complicate the singular/plural possessive apostrophe rule? That being said, “The Smith’s Home” could be considered correct if you are identifying a singular family as residing in the home. “The Smith Family Home” and then plural possessive “The Smiths’ Home” if referring to the multiple members who reside in the home. Plural possessive wouldn’t work if only one person lived in the residence. I believe either would be correct in most circumstances.
What about the case where the “s” and the end of a name is silent, as in Jacques. It we are talking about multiple Jacques family members would they be Jacqueses? And, if we were talking about something they collectively possess (plural possessive), would it be the Jacqueses’s or the Jacqueses’ as in: “the Jacqueses’s coats are hanging here.” Or, am I way off?
Because I was taught how to write in the 1950s I will continue to add an apostrophe to my last name and it’s on a sign saying The Brooks’ in my mother-in-law’s front yard. Thanks just the same.
The first name Jacques is pronounced with a silent s, but you seem to be
talking about Jacques as a surname. I don’t know anyone with that surname, but I found this of interest:
The English surname Jacques is either a late introduction from France or a Frenchification of Jakes. In English this surname is traditionally pronounced as two syllables, jay-kwez.
Maybe this post will help: https://www.dailywritingtips.com/apostrophe-with-plural-possessive-nouns/
As someone with a first name that end in double s, I had always been taught you add the ‘s if the name ends in a single s, but only the ‘ if the name ends in ss. English is a living language so rules do change over time, but I have always used Ross’ instead of Ross’s.
I would probably prefer adding ‘s in all singular forms of possessives of names. Look at this sentence:
“We would like to invite you to Peters’ Association this evening.”
Is it association of Mr Peters (one guy) or is it association of people where every member’s name is Peter?
If the rule is using ‘s for all gingular forms, then I know I was invited to a club of people with name “Peter” or Association of Peters.
Is it a rule carved in stone that a word ending in s’ or s’s is pronounced differently? Many American native speakers and ESL teachers I spoke with differ on that matter. I heard my former ESL teacher pronounced “Bernie Sanders’ top candidate status” [Sanders-iz] while the journalist/TV host said [Sanders].