Comments on: The irrealis “were” can say hello to the Dodo

By: Ben

Ben — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 04:27:52 +0000

I agree with Nick, 100%. That the subjunctive be maintained and upheld is a vital concern. Would that it might always exist!

On the other hand, I appreciate ‘were’ not being taught as standard usage in ‘subjunctive contexts’, since students of English want to be able to uninhibitedly communicate, and burdening them with higher-level, seldom-respected rules about how language ‘really ought to be’, doesn’t do them much service.

Students SHOULD be taught the subjunctive, but in its proper context: as the mark of an educated, discerning speaker, and not as a regular piece of ‘everyday’ grammar.

Having said that: long live the subjunctive. It won’t die with me

By: Nick

Nick — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 06:13:47 +0000

I love the subjunctive and, if I were you, I’d use it. It’s important that it not be lost to morons and ignorant people who care not about the language that they speak! God save the subjunctive and God forbid it ever fall out of use!

By: mand

mand — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:54:16 +0000

@ Peter: {applause} :0)

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:58:25 +0000

Irrealis is a generic descriptor, like plural or male. “Irrealis were” is being used to distinguish the subjunctive (an “irrealis case”) from the indicative use of the word ‘were’ (e.g., “we were speaking”); it’s just another way to say “subjunctive”. (Actually, it’s a more generic descriptor than “subjunctive”, but English, like Latin, only has the one irrealis case; i.e., the subjunctive. Ancient Greek, for example, has two: subjunctive and optative, so “irrealis” would cover both)

By: Brad K.

Brad K. — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:24:35 +0000

@ Maeve,

Would another expression for irrealis be “phantom”? In your example “If she were younger, she would have enjoyed that trip” then common or general rules would pair She Was or We Were. So using She Were might be considered a “phantom” construct, not because the sense of the verb and noun agree, but because the verb is used in a disjoint time sense.

Almost like “informs” as in “Data informs strategy, or should.”

I at first took irrealis to be a generic descriptor, like plural or male. But perhaps the phrase “irrealis were” is a specific bit of technical jargon, with a meaning quite aside from common usage, and not immediately available from the words of the phrase.