Comments on: Case of the Missing “i”s: foliage, verbiage, miniature http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:29:22 +0000 hourly 1 By: Naomi http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/comment-page-1/#comment-392162 Naomi Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:21:29 +0000 http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/#comment-392162 I am somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to language but, I still think this is ridiculous. Sometimes a pronunciation difference is due to an accent or dialect. For instance, in Cantonese, ni hao ma becomes ni ho ma, dropping the 'a'. I'm sure Chinese people don't complain so much about it because they do not use a phonetic alphabet like we do. Being a native English speaker, I would never see a word with the ending 'iage' and think that it's strange to leave the "i" out. Sounds often merge together when spoken quickly. Do you pronounce the 'i' in the word carriage? Languages evolve. If English hadn't, we'd still be pronouncing the 'k' in the word knife. Have you ever tried to read Old English or Middle English for that matter? Just because in English we use hard pronunciations, doesn't mean that those sounds aren't still there in a more subtle way. Anyone who knows the proper pronunciation of sukiyaki or gozaimasu in Japanese knows that to a native English speaker, the syllable 'su' in these words, sounds like a slightly elongated 's'. However, once one becomes more familiar with Japanese, I think they become more familiar with the subtleties and realize that the 'u' is, in fact, there. If you are such a serious traditionalist, do you always pronounce a hard 't' sound when it's in the middle or at the end of a word? If you do, I doubt you sound like a native English speaker. I am somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to language but, I still think this is ridiculous. Sometimes a pronunciation difference is due to an accent or dialect. For instance, in Cantonese, ni hao ma becomes ni ho ma, dropping the ‘a’. I’m sure Chinese people don’t complain so much about it because they do not use a phonetic alphabet like we do. Being a native English speaker, I would never see a word with the ending ‘iage’ and think that it’s strange to leave the “i” out. Sounds often merge together when spoken quickly. Do you pronounce the ‘i’ in the word carriage? Languages evolve. If English hadn’t, we’d still be pronouncing the ‘k’ in the word knife. Have you ever tried to read Old English or Middle English for that matter? Just because in English we use hard pronunciations, doesn’t mean that those sounds aren’t still there in a more subtle way. Anyone who knows the proper pronunciation of sukiyaki or gozaimasu in Japanese knows that to a native English speaker, the syllable ‘su’ in these words, sounds like a slightly elongated ‘s’. However, once one becomes more familiar with Japanese, I think they become more familiar with the subtleties and realize that the ‘u’ is, in fact, there. If you are such a serious traditionalist, do you always pronounce a hard ‘t’ sound when it’s in the middle or at the end of a word? If you do, I doubt you sound like a native English speaker.

]]> By: chanda http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/comment-page-1/#comment-222234 chanda Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:10:07 +0000 http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/#comment-222234 My point is English did not evolve from slang. The phrase "where are you at" will never be correct grammar, an accent learned through your environment does not make it correct. It's acceptable, but not correct. Of course you accept it because at this point in time, our culture is very lackadaisical with correct, incorrect and everything in between when it comes to the English language. That could someday change. Words and variations of words will be added to the dictionary but words themselves will not be changed to accommodate mispronunciations. My point is English did not evolve from slang. The phrase “where are you at” will never be correct grammar, an accent learned through your environment does not make it correct. It’s acceptable, but not correct. Of course you accept it because at this point in time, our culture is very lackadaisical with correct, incorrect and everything in between when it comes to the English language. That could someday change. Words and variations of words will be added to the dictionary but words themselves will not be changed to accommodate mispronunciations.

]]> By: Karla http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/comment-page-1/#comment-221385 Karla Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:07:13 +0000 http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/#comment-221385 So, chanda, do you still speak the English of the 11th century? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English) If you did, none of us would understand you (unless one of you is a student of Middle English). :-> Language evolves. As far as "correct pronunciation", that could depend on where in the US you live (if you live in the US). If a Bostonian tells me he "pahks his cah in Hahvid Yahd" I don't think he's pronouncing it "correctly" but I still know what he means. So, chanda, do you still speak the English of the 11th century? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English) If you did, none of us would understand you (unless one of you is a student of Middle English). :-> Language evolves.

As far as “correct pronunciation”, that could depend on where in the US you live (if you live in the US). If a Bostonian tells me he “pahks his cah in Hahvid Yahd” I don’t think he’s pronouncing it “correctly” but I still know what he means.

]]> By: chanda http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/comment-page-1/#comment-221356 chanda Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:07:23 +0000 http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/#comment-221356 Also, the primary portion of the English language did not derive from a "slang" form of Latin. It was very ridged in meaning and pronunciation. Words were sacred. If you were learning another language, wouldn't you want to pronounce it correctly? Or would you, Karla, make it up to suit your own needs and call your version "correct pronunciation", to eventually be taught to my child as "correct pronunciation"? I would have a problem with that. Also, the primary portion of the English language did not derive from a “slang” form of Latin. It was very ridged in meaning and pronunciation. Words were sacred.
If you were learning another language, wouldn’t you want to pronounce it correctly? Or would you, Karla, make it up to suit your own needs and call your version “correct pronunciation”, to eventually be taught to my child as “correct pronunciation”? I would have a problem with that.

]]> By: chanda http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/comment-page-1/#comment-221352 chanda Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:51:57 +0000 http://www.dailywritingtips.com/case-of-the-missing-is-foliage-verbiage-miniature/#comment-221352 Incorrect pronunciation is lazy. When lazy makes the rules, good luck. Would President Obama say "min-a-ture"? Correct pronunciation is a measure of intelligence and quality. Incorrect pronunciation is lazy. When lazy makes the rules, good luck. Would President Obama say “min-a-ture”? Correct pronunciation is a measure of intelligence and quality.

]]>